A Horror World Conversation with Wrath James White
By Steven E. Wedel

There are certain people you just don’t want to meet in a dark alley. You know, people you see and think, “Damn, I do not want to piss off that dude, so I’ll just cross the street now.” Wrath James White is one of those people. Okay, maybe he’s their king. It isn’t just that he towers over most grown men or appears to be carved from stone. It’s something about his eyes. It’s like they have teeth and are eating you when he looks at you.

If you think this is the sentence where I say that he’s really just a big ol’ teddy bear, you obviously have not read the man’s fiction. Teddy bears do not think about … well, let’s just say Jeffrey Dahmer might have blushed and blanched reading Wrath’s books.

Horror World: Wrath, thanks for taking the time to talk to Horror World. I understand you’re about to mark the release of your first mass market book, coming in December from Leisure Books. Tell us about this new edition of SUCCULENT PREY.

Wrath James White: Succulent Prey was my debut novel. The funny thing is that I had intended it to be a mass-market novel when I wrote it. Those who have read it probably think I’m crazy and can’t imagine how something so violent and sexual could have ever been written with the mainstream in mind, but that really was my intention. I made the plotline much more linear than anything I had written previously and tried to avoid creative literary flourishes. Still, there would be no Leisure book deal had Larry at Bloodletting Books not taken a chance on it first. Bloodletting Books did a great job with the limited edition. I have the lettered edition framed in my house.

HW: Your visceral style has made a big splash in the small press, where authors typically have more freedom to be extreme. Did Leisure make you tone anything done for mass market consumption? How different is this edition than the one from Bloodletting Books?

WJW: There is actually very little difference aside from aesthetics. The limited was hardbound with a beautiful cover art by Mike Bohatch and the lettered featured a metal traycase. The Leisure Books version doesn’t have the recipes at the beginning of each chapter. The only changes I made to the actual text was to change a word or two here or there to make it flow smoother. Other than that it is pretty much the same. All the sex and violence of the original remains in the Leisure version.

HW: Will you continue to work with small press publishers? Why, or why not?

WJW: The small press is the life-blood of the genre. Succulent Prey, His Pain, Teratologist, Poisoning Eros, The Book of A Thousand Sins, none of them would exist without the small press publisher. There are freedoms of style and form that you have in the small press that you can’t have in the mass-market. With a limited edition run you only have to sell 500 copies or less. That means that you can appeal to a small niche of people. You don’t have to worry about trying to fulfill everyone’s tastes. Neither Poisoning Eros nor Teratologist could have been born outside of the small press. The small press also gives you greater freedom with the length of the book. I don’t have to write 85,000 words every time. I can write 30, 40, or 60,000 words. I personally think that the novella is the perfect length for what I do. Novellas don’t go over so well with mass-market publishers. Leisure has shown more flexibility in that regard than most mass-market publishers. They published a few novellas from Jack Ketchum recently and they just put out a collection of novellas from Ketchum, Laymon and Lee. So who knows, maybe there’s hope that you’ll see my novellas in the mass-market someday.

HW: You’re known for your extreme fiction. As you say in your blog profile, “If you have a weak stomach, a closed mind, rigid morals, and Victorian sexual ethics, then avoid my writing like the plague. Avoid me as well.” What draws you to that sharp, dark edge?

WJW: The vivid descriptions are what drew me to horror in the first place. I was fascinated by the skill it took to describe the indescribable. I always wanted to be a visual artist but I lacked the talent. Painters and sculptors absolutely amaze me. I am not one of the writers who believes in leaving things up to the readers imagination. I don’t even like reading writing like that. I don’t want to see what’s in my own head. I want to see what’s in the author’s head. I believe in Tolstoy’s theory of aesthetics, that the degree of an artist’s success is measured by how well he communicates his vision. That’s why my work tends to be so graphic. I want the reader to see exactly what I see in my head, exactly the way I see it. I want what’s on the page to be as horrible, terrifying, and disturbing as I see it in my mind’s eye.

I’m the same way with the other descriptions too. When I describe something beautiful or sensual or sad or exciting. It’s just that people tend to remember the sex and the violence the most because we aren’t used to seeing someone spend as much time describing an evisceration scene as other writers do describing falling autumn leaves. I describe the leaves and the blood.

HW: Do you think it was harder to break into print because you break so many taboos with your writing?

WJW: It was probably easier. It helped me to stand out. I stand out from other mainstream writers because of the graphic descriptions of sex and violence but I stand out from many so-called “Extreme” horror writers because a lot of my writing has a socio-political message.

HW: Often times, horror stories tend to validate things like the Victorian sexual ethics you mention above. I’m thinking of the Friday the 13 th films, for instance, where only the chaste girl survives while her sexually active friends die, or stories where evil is defeated by religious means. Why would a genre where pretty much anything is allowed support that kind of morality?

WJW: There is a tradition in western literature of “morality plays” in which sex and violence is justified by taking a moral at the end of the story. Some of the most decadent writing of all time came out of this tradition including writers like the Marquis De Sade. I think a lot of writers, directors, and musicians still feel that they need to validate their work this way to avoid being labeled perverse, amoral, or degenerate. Gangsta rap was validated that way at first until it became blatantly obvious that it was little more than selling violence because violence sells and it had no real social relevance. I don’t feel the need to justify my writing that way. Most of my work does contain a message but that message often tends to be even more controversial than the story itself.

HW: No conversation with Wrath would be complete without at least one or two questions about your fighting career. You fought professionally for nine years, right? What style(s) of fighting? What kind of success did you have in the field?

WJW: I studied Muay Thai kickboxing. I had mixed success. I made it to the top, won a US heavyweight title, fought for a world title. I fought in some of the largest martial arts events in history. My first fight in Japan was in front of 45,000 people. I just made a lot of mistakes back then. I had a sex addiction problem that often led to me walking into the ring completely exhausted. That was okay when I was knocking guys out in a round or two but if the fight went the distance I would be sleepwalking by the end.

I tried a comeback this year and had two fights. I won one and got KTFO in the other. Age has sapped much of my speed and my style really relied on speed and athleticism. Without the speed I became ordinary. Now that I’m older and slower, it’s just too dangerous to fight. I take too many punches now. It’s much safer for me to stay outside the ropes yelling instructions at the younger fighters who can still do it.

HW: Okay, you say you hate team sports, and that you’d rather watch any solo sport, even tennis, than the Super Bowl. Talk to me about your collaborations with Maurice Broaddus, Edward Lee and Monica O’Rourke. Was it difficult working with a partner?

WJW: I’m very strong-willed and I could easily dominate a story. That’s why I only collaborate with equally strong-willed people. Otherwise the collaborations would just come out sounding like Wrath James White stories instead of Wrath James White and J.F. Gonzalez or Edward Lee or Monica O’Rourke or Maurice Broaddus stories.

HW: You call yourself a militant atheist. Maurice is the “Sinister Minister.” How did that dynamic work for ORGY OF SOULS? Were there lots of deep (and heated) philosophical discussions as the book progressed?

WJW: We had lots of deep, heated, philosophical debates before we ever decided to collaborate. That’s how we learned to respect one another’s beliefs. It was that grudging respect you have for a worthy adversary. What really made it work was that we were friends and we respected each other as writers and most of all we respected the story too much to use it as an opportunity to proselytize. I did enough proselytizing in The Book of A Thousand Sins. That was almost my atheist manifesto.

HW: UFC or traditional boxing? Which do you prefer to watch, or participate in? Why?

WJW: I like them both. Boxing is difficult because you have such a limited arsenal. If your opponent has better hands than you then you’d better hope he gasses out or else you’re going to get seriously hurt. In mixed-martial arts, if your opponent is a better boxer then you kick him, or clinch him up and knee and elbow him or take him down. Boxing is extremely dangerous because it is so limited. There has only been one death in MMA in its entire fifteen year history. There has been more than one death a year in boxing during the same time period. After doing Muay Thai for so long it’s hard to imagine going into the ring with just my two fists to defend me. Things like the “standing eight count” and the “three knockdown rule” make boxing even more dangerous. In Muay Thai there’s more pain but a lot less permanent damage. I have much respect for boxers. That’s one tough sport.

HW: All right, I have to ask this. I’m a big fan of the Rocky movies. You’re a fighter who grew up in Philadelphia. What’s your opinion of the Stallone films?

WJW: I’m a huge Rocky fan. Who isn’t?

HW: You write, you still train fighters, and I read where you said you’ve been in the building industry for a long time. Just how many careers are you nurturing at the moment?

WJW: I’m a writer, a fighter. I’m in construction management. I train and manage fighters. I am promoting a No-Gi Jui-Jitsu tournament next year. I am co-chair of the First Annual 2009 KillerCon in Las Vegas. I’ve also got three kids, a wife, and three dogs and I run half-marathons, marathons, and 10ks. I’m a busy guy.

HW: You were pretty vocal during this last election cycle. I assume you’re pleased with the outcome. What do you expect to see during the next four years?

WJW: The end of supply-side economics and the economic disaster associated with that idiotic theory and the end of preemptive war. At least for the next four years. Long enough for America to heal from the current idiot taking up space in the oval office. I think that much of the damage done to America’s international image could be repaired during the next administration as well. I’d love to see universal healthcare and true education reform but I don’t think that’s gonna happen unless and until he gets reelected to a second term.

HW: Talk to us about KillerCon? What made you want to put that together, and how is it coming along?

WJW: I have been trying to convince someone to throw a World Horror in Las Vegas for years but there was a fear that all the attendees would wind up at the stripclubs and poker tables instead of the panels. I was loudly bemoaning this at NeCon this year when Monica suggested that I just throw my own convention. Then people started volunteering to help me and it just took on a momentum of its own.

I had an idea to make it a small event, sort of a cross between World Horror and NeCon. Then I put out a few queries to see what everyone else wanted to see and it became apparent that what was really needed was a convention that brought together people from outside the normal horror crowd. I reached out to thriller writers, horror writers, and paranormal romance writers to create a multi-genre convention. The first KillerCon will feature Brian Keene, Heather Graham, Joe Lansdale, L.A. Banks, and Edward Lee. It’s going to be one hell of a time.

HW: We’ve strayed a bit from writing. I’ve read other interviews where you talk about your influences and such, but can you go ahead and summarize that for us here? What authors inspired you to think and made you want to write?

WJW: I began by imitating Stephen King like everyone else who started writing horror in the eighties. King was then and still remains the standard of excellence for the genre. Later, I began reading those heavy European writers like Charles Baudelaire and Comte De Lautremonte. In college, I was introduced to Dostoyevsky, Camus, and Sartre. And then I got into erotica, Von Sacher Masoch, Anais Nin, De Sade, and O. Before I started my first novel I began reading Donald Goines and Ice Berg Slim. A bit of all of that comes out in my writing.

HW: Looking beyond Leisure’s release of SUCCULENT PREY, what’s next for you?

WJW: Population Zero comes out this month from Cargo Cult Press and next year will see the release of the long awaited sequel to Poisoning Eros.

HW: What will you be doing to promote SUCCULENT PREY? Where can your fans mob you … if they dare?

WJW: I’ll be doing a lot of conventions next year. I plan to attend Horrorfind in Baltimore, Thrillerfest in New York, NeCon in Rhode Island, MoCon in Indianapolis, and the Stokers in LA and, of course, KillerCon in Las Vegas September 17 th through the 20 th. The first thing on the agenda is a reading at Dark Delicacies in Burbank December 7 th.

HW: Invariably I’ll forget to ask about something. What final message would you like to offer to the readers of Horror World?

WJW: Support the small press. Support the mass-market publishers like Leisure who help keep the genre alive. You’ve got to show the people who control the corporate purse strings that horror is still viable or else it will go away and we’ll be left with nothing but romantic comedies.

HW: Thanks for your time, Wrath. We wish you the best of luck with all your many endeavors.

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